Need say no more

We know there is no God in the same way that we know there are no square triangles.

Assume: the definition of God is an intelligent being who decides to begin the universe, including time.

A decision is a transition from indifference to will. Such transition may only take place within time. Thus, we ask the question when did God make the decision to begin time, before, after or during the actual commencement of time:

1. Since all decisions require time to already be in effect, God cannot make the decision until time has already commenced in operation and accordingly, he cannot make the decision before or during the actual commencement of time;

2. Since time was already in existence after time commenced, God cannot be said to create it.

Thus, the definition of God as presented CANNOT exist because, like the square triangle, the definition CANNOT be show to exist in reality and thus, there CANNOT be a God.

However, this proof only shows that an intelligent being could not create the universe. It does not prevent the universe being the result of natural causes, something without decision making ability or chosen will. Accordingly, as far as I see it and to the extent of the validity of the argument, which I cannot flaw myself, the argument about the existence of God is now over.

Calvinism, hating the poor and working hard

Josh,

I remember where I heard about Calvinism! It was during my studies of criminology and the early modern philosopher, Max Weber, who penned a study of protestant churches in Europe, a note from the commentary:

Weber traced the origins of the Protestant ethic to the Reformation, though he acknowledged some respect for secular everyday labor as early as the Middle Ages. The Roman Catholic Church assured salvation to individuals who accepted the church's sacraments and submitted to the clerical authority. However, the Reformation had effectively removed such assurances. From a psychological viewpoint, the average person had difficulty adjusting to this new worldview, and only the most devout believers or "religious geniuses" within Protestanism, such as Martin Luther, were able to make this adjustment, according to Weber.

In the absence of such assurances from religious authority, Weber argued that Protestants began to look for other "signs" that they were saved. Calvin and his followers taught a doctrine of double predestination, in which from the beginning God chose some people for salvation and others for damnation. The inability to influence one's own salvation presented a very difficult problem for Calvin's followers. It became an absolute duty to believe that one was chosen for salvation, and to dispel any doubt about that: lack of self-confidence was evidence of insufficient faith and a sign of damnation. So, self-confidence took the place of priestly assurance of God's grace.

Worldly success became one measure of that self-confidence. Luther made an early endorsement of Europe's emerging labor divisions. Weber identifies the applicability of Luther's conclusions, noting that a "vocation" from God was no longer limited to the clergy or church, but applied to any occupation or trade.

However, Weber saw the fulfillment of the Protestant ethic not in Lutheranism, which was too concerned with the reception of divine spirit in the soul, but in Calvinistic forms of Christianity. The trend was carried further still in Pietism. Baptism diluted the concept of the calling relative to Calvinists, but other aspects made its congregants fertile soil for the development of capitalism--namely, a lack of paralyzing ascetism, the refusal to accept state office and thereby develop unpolitically, and the doctrine of control by conscience which caused rigorous honesty.

The "paradox" Weber found was, in simple terms:

* According to the new Protestant religions, an individual was religiously compelled to follow a secular vocation with as much zeal as possible. A person living according to this world view was more likely to accumulate money.
* The new religions (in particular, Calvinism and other more austere Protestant sects) effectively forbade wastefully using hard earned money and identified the purchase of luxuries a sin. Donations to an individual's church or congregation was limited due to the rejection by certain Protestant sects of icons. Finally, donation of money to the poor or to charity was generally frowned on as it was seen as furthering beggary. This social condition was perceived as laziness, burdening their fellow man, and an affront to God; by not working, one failed to glorify God.

As per usual, it seems you know less about your own theology than the atheist.

Brisbane Atheist Meetup Group Agenda - Feb meeting

Brisbane Atheist Meetup Group - February Meeting - 9 February 2009

Introductions
News from this month

- Catholic Church involved in Holocaust Denial Row
Bishop Williamson, who said the Nazis did not use gas chambers and killed "only" 300,000 Jews rather than six million, admitted last week his remarks had been "imprudent" and apologised to the Pope for the "anguish" he had caused. However, he did not withdraw his claim, nor did he apologise to the Jews.

- Papal Choice for Bishop describes Hurricane Katrina as "Act of God"
Father Gerhard Maria Wagner, 54, a parish priest at Windischgarsten in Austria since 1988, said in the parish newsletter four years ago that the death and destruction caused by Hurricane Katrina was "divine retribution" for excessive sexual permissiveness, including tolerance of homosexuality, in the city.
He noted that Katrina destroyed not only nightclubs and brothels in New Orleans, but also abortion clinics, saying: "The conditions of immorality in this city are indescribable."

- London Bus "religion wars"
The latest to hit the streets with pro-God buses are The Christian Party, the Trinitarian Bible Society and the Russian Orthodox Church. The Christian Party is paying for buses to carry the slogan: 'There definitely is a God. So join the Christian Party and enjoy your life.' The Trinitarian Bible Society has chosen a line from Psalm 53: 'The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God.'

Current Activities

We presently don't have any on-going projects

Martin Rady has suggested that we carry out some kind of charitable endeavour:

- Food collection for homeless people?

Also, is anyone interested in producing a promotional youtube video for the Group?

Religion in the Spotlight: Pentacostalism

- Predominantly infest Northern Queensland.
- Descended from the mid-west United States in about 1901

Pentecostals generally believe
- The Bible is the innerent word of God and thus the world is 6,000 years old;
- Salvation is only through being re-born with Jesus
- Good works won't get you to heaven
- some Pentecostals believe true christians can handle snakes without being bitten
- glossolalia or speaking in tongues:
Acts 2:4: And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance
- Currently they operate a witnessing program in the Queen St Mall on Friday nights.

General Discussion